tricia enright for press secretary! that woman is >SHARP
anna | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 12:44 pm | #

oh and by the way, i cannot let this rest.

here's the contact information for mr delay. i urge everyone - especially texans - to contact him immediately:

202-225-5951 - washington office
281-240-3700 - texas office
202-225-5241 - washington fax #
281-240-2959 - texas fax #

if someone can please post the 800# congressional switchboard i'd appreciate it.
anna | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 12:48 pm | #

I don't know..... I'll believe anything out of Sugar Land, Texas--the town where the America-love is so strong the air smells like peppermint and fresh milk.
Daniel Vivian | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 12:57 pm | #

Howard Dean an "extremist?" Hummm....
What's extreme about balanced budgets?
What's extreme about funding the unfunded mandates?
What's extreme about telling the truth?
What's extreme about making sure our sons and daughters in uniform are safe?
What's extreme about middle-class health insurance?

Based upon their records Howard Dean is swimming in the mainstream, while Tom Delay is in the extreme fringe.
JobyTodd | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 1:03 pm | #

e-mail address for Mr. Delay?
aw | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 1:08 pm | #

With apologies to Joby Todd:

Howard Dean "cruel?" Hummm....
What's cruel about balanced budgets?
What's cruel about funding the unfunded mandates?
What's cruel about telling the truth?
What's cruel about making sure our sons and daughters in uniform are safe?
What's cruel about middle-class health insuranc
Alan in CA | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 1:16 pm | #

We need to cite exact, sourced quotes from Ashcroft and DeLay that show them questioning people's patriotism in the last year.

After months and months of Republicans questioning the patriotism of anyone who dared even to question the wisdom of the war in Iraq, they are at last getting to feel what it's like to be on the receiving end of such accusations.

I want to see the exact quote from Dean from confirmed, believable sources (plural). Ultimately, questioning someone's patriotism may not be fruitful, however. It's like questioning the quality of someone else's prayer; it's too private for us to know.

But public statements are another matter, and if they have a jingoistic ring to them that is intended to stifle discussion and criticism, we certainly have a right to point that out.

So, who can dig up the specific statements of Ashcroft and Delay that will reveal them as super-patriots, nationalists who view America as unquestionably morally superior?

We need to be able to point to that kind of stuff and connect it to the cultural hubris of presuming the US could invade a Middle Eastern country and be loved for it.
PeterVC in CA | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 1:22 pm | #

"Howard Dean, I knew John Ashcroft, John Ashcroft was a friend of mine, and Howard Dean, you're no John Ashcroft!"

When you get this kind of message from Tom DeLay, you're on the right track.
Daniel Vivian | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 1:26 pm | #

re: email

it used to be senator@tomdelay.house.gov but now that there's that new stupid email thing in place, it's difficult to email delay.

i'd just call or send a fax.
anna | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 1:27 pm | #

DeLay once compared OSHA to Nazi Storm troopers so in his twisted view, a crpto-facist like Ashcroft is a patriot. Let's keep punching these thugs right back! Good job Ms. Enright!
James Kennelly | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 2:05 pm | #

When I was in junior high school I tried to wade through Mein Kampf. I couldn't do it, but one line has stuck in my mind to this day: "If you tell people enough lies often enough, they are bound to believe some of them."

Paul Krugman helps to put things in economic and historical perspective:

http://www.liberaloasis.com/krugman.htm

I think he doesn't extend Kissinger's thesis quite far enough, though. I am afraid that candidates other than Howard Dean would be emulate Hindenberg or Ito in facilitating the continued takeover by the radicals. I pray that we shall not see the day when the roots of the tree of Liberty must be refreshed with its natural manure.
Alan in CA | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 2:10 pm | #

So There You Go Representative Tom Delay did exactly what he accused Howard Dean of doing.
Bad mouthing a fine Patriotic American named Dr. Howard Dean.

It seems like there is some worry at Altra Conservative Central.
Their President might actually have to explain himself to the American voters.

They better take a tip from Saddam and use doubles that are actually capable of reading a statement without looking at the paper every three words.

For goodness sakes don't let those Bush doubles look the people in the eye or the jig is up.
He hasn't given this country eye contact his whole Presidentcy.
Michael F. Ruger | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 2:21 pm | #

My "favorite" Ashcroft moment was when he went before the Senate and said that anyone who questioned what they were doing was giving comfort to terrorists (I don't have the exact words in front of me, but that was the essence of what he said).
Chris Andersen | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 2:41 pm | #

chris, here you go (i saved that one for my signature files):

"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: your tactics only aid terrorists."
--Attorney General John ASScroft to the Senate Judiciary Committee
anna | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 3:09 pm | #

"Howard Dean is a cruel and extremist demagogue," DeLay said.

Takes one to know one!

I nominate DeLay for this week's fruitcake award. Any seconds?
Anthony Segredo | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 4:46 pm | #

I guess I’ll go AGAINST the GRAIN

If Dean said Ashcroft was not a patriot, then Dean was wrong.

I have no doubt that Ashcroft and Bush and Rumsfeld and all the rest feel that they are "patriots" I am not going to tell to him or anyone else that they are not and neither should Dean.

What Dean could say, if he wants to broach the "patriot" live wire, is that he believes that Ashcroft is a "miss-guided Patriot"

Calling someone "not a Patriot" is akin to calling someone un-American.

Let the Republican opposition use these flame throwing tactics and we WILL defend ourselves, but let us not engage in using these kinds of "hot button” incendiary phrases.

It lowers us to Tom Delay’s level and that is a place we or Dean should never find ourselves.

You can get across your message in other ways using other words that make it more difficult for the opposition to sink their teeth into.

By Dean calling Ashcroft "unpatriotic" creates a scenario were the focus is put onto what Dean said and not on what Ashcroft does.

Let me repeat that. By Dean calling Ashcroft "unpatriotic"creates a scenario were the focus is put onto what Dean said and NOT on what Ashcroft DOES.

That is a losing combination.

So out of what's right ethically and what’s right tactically, I hope the Howard Dean will refrain from using the same divisive flame words that a Tom Delay or some other such Republican would use.
Robert Deeble | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 7:38 pm | #

Dean's got to be tuff as nails one day; smooth as silk the next. He's got to prove he can be the articulate policy wonk...and a junkyard dog. There are NO LIMITS to what the GOP will say or do to destroy Gov Dean--NONE WHATSOEVER.

Posted by workerbee in Indiana at September 2, 2003 04:58 PM

**************************************************

I might add that Dean's greatest asset would be his intelligence.

Not being intelligent negates all other qualities, at least as far as this presidential campaign is concerned.

Some people here get all crazy from a statement from Tom Delay. Many just flew off the handle before they even found out exactly what it was that Dean said if anything.

People accepted what the campaign posted was correct about Tom Daly but the campaign never offered evidence or in what context Dean's alleged statement was given.

The Dean campaign can make mistakes too, yet so many just believed what they said without getting the facts first, when the facts were lacking. Doesn't Dr. Dean believe in getting the facts first? Yes! Shouldn't Dean supporters do the same, get the facts first?

Dean set this firestorm into action by his comments. Don't you think the Republicans just love him saying these kinds of statements?

They are experts at taking something like Dean’s comments about Ashcroft and CONVINCINGLY painting Dean as an extremist.

Let them do that with weak ammunition, but Dean shouldn't give them A-bombs in which to do it.

In this instance saying exactly how you feel is not always the best avenue. If you believe that you must express every little thought that comes into your head or that Dean should, then there is no way Dean or any other person will win this election.

Sometimes it's what you don't say that's important. Dean has plenty to say about Bush and is saying it. Questioning someone’s patriotism is a lose lose proposition. It makes Dean sound like Ashcroft or Tom Delay and it makes the Republician's job easier.

You don't always have to bloody the bully’s nose to win. That’s intelligence!

Go Dean!!!!!!!!!
Robert Deeble | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 7:40 pm | #

PS I'll be quite surprised if Dean calls Ashcroft unpatriotic again.

Sure you want to get your base excited but you also have to take the long view, the general election.

That kind of political speak won't go over in the presidential election and Dean knows it.
Robert Deeble | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 7:44 pm | #

I agree with Robert and others who are in support of Dean, but not in support of the name-calling we have come to expect of some loud mouths in the Republican party. Dr. Dean, SHOW your supporters the actions of Ashcroft in a manner that we come to the obvious conclusions if we haven't already. You're running in a campaign where morals are needed to run this country. Let's remember that.
Joe | Email | Homepage | 09.02.03 - 8:52 pm | #

Quick, straight, and to-the-point response from the Dean campaign on DeLay's comments are just the kind of thing that sets us apart from the rest.

It's so good to have a candidate who's willing to fight back and not take any shit from the other side (or, even the same side, in the case of joe lieberman).
ziggy | Email | Homepage | 09.03.03 - 2:29 am | #

You know you aren't just nipping at their heels anymore when they start to snap back at'cha.

What'sa matter, Tommy? Don't like being the only one who gets to mete out who gets to be a patriot and who doesn't?

Grrr.
Barrett in MN | Email | Homepage | 09.03.03 - 5:05 am | #

Oh, I disagree with you, Robert Deeble. I mean, you're absolutely right that it would be nice if Dean could stay above all of this kind of crap, but that's not going to happen no matter how civil he tries to be. Just look at what's happening to Kerry! Doesn't get any less controversial than he is, and he's being summarily attacked for this trait.

On the other hand, there's Dean. He says something a bit irresponsible, and in response he gets a storm of Republican venom and incoherence. It's hardly win-win, but Dean comes out looking much better than they do.

We already know that this is going to be the ugliest, dirtiest campaign season since the (first) guilded age. Why stand around trying to look dignified (a la Kerry), waiting for the shitstorm to hit us?
pete | Email | Homepage | 09.03.03 - 8:26 am | #

What Dean said was stupid. As stupid as what Tom Delay and Ashcroft says. As stupid as those that support George Bush.

The Dean campaign is asking people to support a stupid comment. Stupidity will not win this election.

Everyone who hates Ashcroft hates him for his policies but also hates him for questioning people’s patriotism.

Isn't that what we are supposed to be fighting against? Some idiot questioning your patriotism because you questioned the Iraq war?

Dean puts himself in Ashcroft’s shoes by doing the very SAME thing.

If you can separate Dean’s comments and Ashcrofts comments and think they are different then you can separate anything.

That's what Bush does, saying Clean Air act when it isn't, saying Healthy Forest Act when it isn't, claiming wmd's when it isn't.

Dean is a smart guy and he should know what he's saying.

It hasn't helped this country that for so long no one questioned Bush's words or actions or motives.

For people to, in my opinion. blindly follow Dean and not call him on this mistake, is a mistake. Dean is not infallible and must be held accountable for the mis-steps he takes or he will think that this kind of language is acceptable.

Nothing will turn the public off on Dean more than if they hear him spouting the same kind of nasty and insulting name calling that people like Delay and Ashcroft continually mouth.

Obviously many people disagree with my assessment, especially over on the o-blog, but nothing will sink Dean faster in the general election if the public perceives Dean as just another loud mouth politician.
Robert Deeble | Email | Homepage | 09.03.03 - 9:42 am | #

Again, I agree whole-heartedly with Robert. Strategically and morally rising above the neocons we eschew with such disdain is the way to go. Sinking to the level of junkyard dog and throwing back the same ignorant, childish name-calling you're given is a plain lack of intelligent politicking. Better, throw back some irony and call the behavior, not the content.
Joe | Email | Homepage | 09.03.03 - 11:20 am | #

There's a difference between trying to make a point rhetorically and "childish name calling", and the fact that I personally like hearing someone call Ashcroft on his I'm-the-real-patriot-here crap does not make me a blind follower. Your attitude toward verbal minutia such as this is the major problem with the Democratic party. The sky will not fall if Howard Dean continues to occasionally say things you consider stupid. Everyone in the world says at least a few stupid things every day.

Elections are not about perfection. Everybody's going to fuck up. We don't all have to send the press a letter of regret every time our guy says something less-than-mind-blowing.
pete | Email | Homepage | 09.03.03 - 11:37 am | #

robert, thanks for your insightful comments. i don't want to stoop to name calling, either, but i can't let delay's comment rest. i'm tired of him determining who is or isn't a patriot.
anna | Email | Homepage | 09.03.03 - 11:51 am | #

Anna,

I'm just as sick as you are with Delay and all the rest of this dangerous group of hacks, but your comment also applies to Dean.

"I’m tired of him determining who is or isn't a patriot."

I think this gut reaction by the Dean campaign and supporters indicate how raw our sensibilities and sensitivities have become to the craziness and insanity of the Bush administration.

I can't stand these guys to the point I'm in almost constant distress over what is happening to Americans and our country.

But we have to keep our heads despite of the situation.

I feel that the Dean Campaign wrongly used the devotion of Dean supporters yesterday. It was a kind of manipulation that is disturbing to me.

Dean says, "we can do better". That should also include our rhetoric.

I’m glad someone is still reading this, thanks.
Robert Deeble | Email | Homepage | 09.03.03 - 12:50 pm | #

Dean's original comment might have been intemperate red meat for the crowd... but picking fights with Tom DeLay is a very smart tactical move. Dragging into the light DeLay's extremism, intolerance and contempt for everyone who doesn't share his twisted worldview is both smart politics--it honestly reinforces Dean's persona as a fighter for Democratic principles--and a service to this country, over which this evil man has somehow amassed so much power that even his own president seems afraid to cross him.

In fact, all the Dems should attack DeLay as Public Enemy #1 on the list of "Democracy's Most Wanted." He makes Newt Gingrich look urbane and charming, and is the closest thing in American public life to a real fascist.
dave | Email | Homepage | 09.04.03 - 10:15 am | #

It's so much more effective to pick a fight with Tom Delay for the right reasons rather than the wrong ones.

This was for the wrong reasons.

Howard Dean has staked his campaign to a high moral purpose. What attracted many of his earlier followers and many since then was his opposition to the Iraqi war. Coupled with that was his opposition on individual freedoms and rights being trampled upon by the US Attorney General.

High moral purpose. That is not just an empty phrase, it means something to me.

I'm amazed but not surprised at the hypocrisy that some people here are displaying about what Dean said about Ashcroft and how the campaign wanted his supporters to respond to Tom Delay's response to that.

Essentially what some are saying is " do as I say but not as I do.

Wasn't it Dean, who recently stated " The ends don't justify the means"

What I've been hearing is not only do we have the right to defend ourselves against attacks from the Right but that we have the right to do it in any fashion we deem necessary.

My contention is if that is how you feel, then don't be outraged by what is thrown in your direction. And don't be outraged if Dean’s support starts slipping.

Being here on the blog easily masked the reality that MOST Americans still do not know who Howard Dean is. Joe Lieberman is still the best known candidate in the country.

The danger for Dean is that too many uninformed Americans will hear this kind of talk from Dean ( if left unchecked ) before they discover the true man.

You can be sure that the Republicans will make these kinds of comments widely available for the uninitiated.

I was one of the earliest supporters of Dean and will remain so till the end. Nothing will change that, but I will continue to speak out when I see a foolish strategy and hypocrisy emanating from the campaign.
Robert Deeble | Email | Homepage | 09.04.03 - 10:28 am | #

robert, we're all still reading, and i completely see your point. my last comment was written in haste. essentially, i'm tired of delay's bs. i do agree with you that dean completely misspoke and it was a bad thing for him to try and determine whether someone's a patriot. i'm not sure how else i would have phrased it. i get the point dean was making, but yes, terrible choice of words.
in other words, i agree with you.
anna | Email | Homepage | 09.04.03 - 3:21 pm | #

Anna,

Isn't it so hard to run for president of the United Staes.

Everything is held under an unnatural microscope and the public seem to be easily influenced by the most unscrupulous people.

No wonder we ended up with someone like Bush.

It appears that you have to be either perfect to win or in Bush's case, completely inept, but a skilled liar.

Here's hoping that Howard can overcome the minefields that lay ahead.
Robert Deeble | Email | Homepage | 09.05.03 - 8:20 am | #