sorry, i accidentally deleted this entire post, but had the comments window open -- so, here they are:
Scott Trammell | Email | Homepage | 12.03.03 - 8:29 pm | #

Over Thanksgiving, a friend mentioned that in some European country or countries (she couldn't remember which ) you are REQUIRED to have a "civil union" - or whatever the equivalent name would be - that is the event where you get the license/sanction from the state. The church marriage is a separate event. In other words, Dershowitz's idea is really not new - apparently it's been done that way for a long time abroad.

Has anyone else heard of this?
Rob in Vermont | Email | Homepage | 12.03.03 - 8:30 pm | #

interesting post, scott. very interesting.

and rob, i've heard the same but can't think of the countries off the top of my head. google, maybe?
anna | Email | Homepage | 12.03.03 - 8:31 pm | #

Several month ago I sent this to my local paper for letters to the editor:

"Maybe I've lived in the Bay Area too long, but I don't at all get why anyone would be upset about gays marrying. Or how this affects heterosexual families. I figure it this way: Fifty percent of people who get married get divorced. The other 50 percent just haven't hired a lawyer yet. I say, let anyone who wants to, marry. Why shouldn't gays be allowed the same misery that heterosexuals have?"

Seriously, though, I think the idea of "civil unions" is good. To those that think this law will break up families I have to point out that gays are living together right now. Not having civil union rights does not mean they will not be gay or love each other. They deserve the same rights other couples have.
Arlyn | Email | Homepage | 12.03.03 - 8:32 pm | #

Let me just give Mr. Dershowitz a WILD APPLAUSE review!

That's basically the same thing I've said all along. Don't know about other countries, but it should be sufficient to want to establish that here because, as the Gov says, it's the RIGHT thing to do!

For those of you who may not be familiar with the SF Chronicle's movie review icon, click the link and look for the little guy standing on the chair!
Heather | Email | Homepage | 12.03.03 - 8:32 pm | #

I've been waffling on this issue for some time, balancing my desire to see us prevail on the issue against electoral strategy (based on the assumption that advocating gay marriage hurts Democrats).

I now feel that we need to press this issue. F*** electoral strategy. Let's fight for what Democrats fight for best - civil rights!

Plus I think a big reason we've been getting killed lately is failing to stand up for what we believe. Let's get back to our basic principles. And there's no more important principles for Americans than justice and equal rights for our citizens. It's the right thing to do. If we lead, the country will follow.
G Spot1 | Email | Homepage | 12.03.03 - 7:28 pm | #
GSpot1 | Email | Homepage | 12.03.03 - 8:33 pm | #

again -- sorry back to you...
Scott Trammell | Email | Homepage | 12.03.03 - 8:34 pm | #

I am all for civil unions gay or not. Men and Women or gay couples that do not want religious overtones to their Union should have that right. The term marriage will forever be associated with some form of organized religion even if it was not bestowed in a Church.
Religious institutions as well should recognize gay marriage.
Gerald | Email | Homepage | 12.04.03 - 12:52 am | #

Scott, thank you for being a champion of this issue. I appreciate the effort and the insight. It_is_time.
Joe | Email | Homepage | 12.04.03 - 8:58 am | #

Gerald - You make a fine point, that "marriage" isn't for everyone and plenty of folks wouldn't mind a "civil-union". But - HELLO!?! You can do that already!! Just walk into the Justice-o-th'Peace, show your blood tests, sign the papers...voila!...you have the legal protections and priveledges that we (the gay folks) do not.

This civil-unions issue is NOT the same as "domestic partnership". Important to remember that. Some hetero folks would prefer not to be civilly-unioned or otherwise...but the choices are already theirs. The GLBT community do NOT have the same options, the same rights...and THAT is the issue.
Heather | Email | Homepage | 12.04.03 - 4:48 pm | #