It looks like Tim Bishop has unseated incumbent Re. Felix Grucci, in NY's 1st CD.

What about Boxer as leader for democrats?

It's not going to happen. The people want to see how bad the republicans can screw things up in this country, and now they will get it.

this is my dad's view .. let the republicians have their rope... they are going to hang themselves with it..

do you think the economy is going to pick up cause they gained control of congress???

Looks to me like 3 GOP incumbents got the boot: NY 1st, NM 1st, and I think, if it doesn't change, the TX 23rd.

The Democrats choice of Mondale was a major crossroads; I argued at the time that the future was with Page, and that just crystalized the election, I believe.

Let me mention that Mondale is only 3% down (22% counted) on the MN state site http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/ElecRslts.asp?M=S&Races=allstate . CNN is getting numbers from somewhere else.

Personally, I like Boxer's votes (even as a Dem, I'm probably on the left wing), but I've heard she doesn't have that much clout or influence.

MyDD, you forgot Morella lost in Maryland.

the problem wasn't mondale the problem was Wellstone dying .

wonder if those absentee ballots are going to be the deciding factor???

Oh man. Oh Man. have you buys checked out Ca yet? Davis is behind man. Oh man!!

John Jimenez

That's right 4 of them went down. And Dems besides Thurman in FL 5th? Dems did lose all 4 of the Incumbent vs Incumbent races.

Maybe Kline in MN

Monteith is going to win that 18th CD in CA.

From the earlier thread:

"Was Dean campaigning for the Dem candidate in VT? If not, I don't see how his losing really hurts him for 2004."

Oh, I think it makes it impossible for him. The election wasn't a referendum on him and his policies? Come on. It certainly was. At least, that's how it will be viewed. And he's this longshot crazy bid for the nomination; his biggest problem was going to be convincing people that he's a real winner, and he just lost his home state by proxy?

And I'm speaking as a total Dean convert. That loss in VT is one of the saddest ones of all to me.

If I thought that the GOP dominance was only a two year shtick, I wouldn't be so mad. But if they get the trifecta, they will be able to do so much long-term damage. If they get the Senate, they will get to pass laws that cannot be reversed unless the Dems get back both the Leg and Exec branches...

...and don't forget SCOTUS. A Gooper Senate would let Rhenquist and O'Connor retire safely to preserve a conservative majority for the next fifteen years.

Actually, Vermont might have saved themselves by electing a Republican Gov, he might be able to get the wolves in the GOP Senate to back off, otherwise, they would get nothing.

New leadership has to emerge, both in the Congress and among the 2004 presidential hopefuls. I was leaning towards Howard Dean for 2004 (sent him some $$ and the like) but I was holding back a little. Now I'm solidly for him.
I was frustrated by the timidity of the Dem leadership, but I figured that they knew what they were doing. I was wrong.

Yeah Joey Dee--it looks like Dean is now down for the count. Gore I don't think will run again. That leaves Kerry, Edwards and who else? I guess Kerry will get the nod. He at least criticizes Bush.

CNN says Dems pick up TN-4

smartone you're right, we lost our soul when Wellstone died. He was the one man who always stood up to the big business/religious right garbage.

mydd, it looks like Holden may hold on, so we didn't lose all of the incumbent matchups

SO who is left for 2004 for the Dems?

Dean may be out with the VT results.
Daschle and Gephardt were sent to the woodshed - they will have NO access to the money after this debacle.
Edwards may be too new-DLC, although Bowles show in NC may help him.

Gore is left astride the field. He can claim opposition on Iraq and the tax-cut. The centrist opposition has been discredited. There are no new governors to challenge him - especially since Granholm is disqualified.

Gore in 2004? Sure!

Re-elect Al Gore!

what about a Dem Govenor??

Actually McGreevey in NJ is really interesting

smartone, he's not very popular. He's having a rough go of it right now, what with the budget crisis and all.

Regarding economy - a big rally was squashed the other day after Bush started talking up the war at one of his campaign stops. The stock market wants to go higher, and companies want to invest to grow. But this war is increasing uncertainty all around.

Even after the war, there will be much uncertainty because of the number of enemies we'll have made and, after all, who knows where "W" will invade next. The Isrealis are already pushing us to 'get Iran the day after Iraq is done'. Bush won't mind because then he can berate the UN during the 2004 campaign as well. Having world stability would impact his chances for relelction - I'm sure they've run numbers on it (even if only in their heads).

That was really his father's big mistake - he stopped the war too soon. Bush Sr's numbers dropped off after the war ended. Bush Junior is too smart a politician for that - we'll be in conflict during his next election without question. Innocent civilians from some unlucky third world country will be dying so he can get reelected.

This war isn't good for the short or long run for our country (and the World community), but it sure helped them get elected. Bush: brilliant politician - terrible president.

No, Howard Dean is NOT out. He's the only one who said ANYTHING. He is the only one of the dem hopefuls to be unembarassed to be a true dem. Kerry took on Bush, but then backed down. The coward.

Gore?
no way the Bias Media ( my new name for the Liberal Media) is going to drag him thru the mud again and again...

"No more than 8% of the state has reported, and some of the best precincts you've ever seen have yet to report." -- Mondale

If that's true, things sound good for that race, especially using the secretary of state's data rather than CNN's.

"No, Howard Dean is NOT out. He's the only one who said ANYTHING. He is the only one of the dem hopefuls to be unembarassed to be a true dem."

Well, I'm still going up there to work for him, so I really hope you're right.

I agree. He will run with this war stuff for the next two years. We will hear war, war war. He thinks that is his only winning issue according to the powerpoint presentation by Rove & Co. However, I think that people will tire of war. We will get tired of losing our children, losing our jobs and losing our money in the stock market. You can't run on war forever. Even FDR couldn't do it.

As much as I hate Gore for his poor 2000 campaign that gave Dumbya and his thugs a change to steal the election, he is the only one who has continuously criticized Bush's policies recently.

I'm torn between Gore's recent courage and a new candidate who may have a better chance to win.

The Gov race in AL looks like the Dems only hope of having a Governor in the south. With 97% Siegelman up by 6000 votes. (Riley was up by only 8 votes with 95% out)

Well the good news is Gore can't be blamed for this disaster matter of fact Gore looks better cause is the only democrat to bash Bush lately.

"The Gov race in AL looks like the Dems only hope of having a Governor in the south."

Well, there's Tennessee.

The war will come, and it will not be bloody.

It will be foolish, in the sense that while we will defeat Saddam and eliminate his nukes, we will still be hated in the Arab world, Israel will still be screwing the Palestinians, and there will still be untouchable anti-American regimes in Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, and Lybia.

But it will be a victory, and it will end the nuclear proliferation threat in Iraq. And that limited success will be enough to end the anti-war Dean campaign.

Davis dead even at 1/4 of the vote. Bustamante is pulling ahead slightly. I have no friggin' idea why this is the pattern. The mail-in and rural surge are out of synch.

Actually, one of the few bright spots is that AP is saying that Henry has won in OK, though Largent isn't conceding.

"No, Howard Dean is NOT out. He's the only one who said ANYTHING. He is the only one of the dem hopefuls to be unembarassed to be a true dem."

Well, I'm still going up there to work for him, so I really hope you're right.

Good for you. Where do I sign up?

"No, Howard Dean is NOT out. He's the only one who said ANYTHING. He is the only one of the dem hopefuls to be unembarassed to be a true dem. Kerry took on Bush, but then backed down. The coward."

Gore said something that resonated louder then Dean. Its true that Dean is in office and Gore isn't but at the same time you can't say Gore didn't take any risks with his stands. I'm not sure how much Gore will be hurt by Shaheen and Kennedy-Townsends loss since he stumped so much for them. Perhaps he'll be seen as a went down fighting kind of guy. I think any criticism of that will wear thin when you consider what a dissaster this night has been for Democrats.

Gore in '04 http://www.algore04.com

John Jimenez

Dems are going to win WY Gov. Maybe more environmentalism next time?

OTOH, we also need to analyze the returns in detail. I remember when Tom Bradley lost to George Deukmejian in 1982, which several networks called wrong, they had actually OVERestimated Democratic base turnout (black and Hispanic). When the turnout numbers came out by precinct, the 'burbs were 50s, 60s, even 70s, and the 'hoods (I lived in one at the time) were in the twenties.

Is it failure to reach out to the center, failure to develop any issue, or failure to mobilize the base. Maybe it's like with Jimmy Carter, that the whole Dem leadership looks wimpy compared to its opposite numbers.

Well, if Dean's campaign were built on anti-war, then yes, you'd be right.

Fortunately, it's built on (1) fiscal responsibility (rolling back tax cuts), (2) health care and (3) a Marshall Plan-type foriegn policy.

It may end, but not because of the reason you stated.

OH-17: Traficant (IND) 15%

""The Gov race in AL looks like the Dems only hope of having a Governor in the south.""

"Well, there's Tennessee."

WV, we have a governer. And we are closer to the south then we are to the North, norther-east or midwest.

John Jimenez

"WV, we have a governer"

Sorry. This should be a Dem Governor.

John Jimenez

OK Henry ... I always thought that was south

What r the numbers in MN, did the Dem areas come in yet?

"Good for you. Where do I sign up?"

Well, if you're serious, just contact info@deanforamerica.com.

Al Gore was great in his Convention speech--where is that guy? If we see THAT again, maybe...but it may be too little too late.

Holden is going to win, but Wofford fell behind by 1,000 votes, with 93% reporting.

Real Liberal:
Gore is the most promising Dem because he's the only one to bash bush lately? That's a ringing endorsement of his, uh, vision?

All:
I'm finding all this panic to be pretty amusing. Regardless of the rest of the races, it looks like Republicans hold the Senate as soon as MO certifies its results. We can all only hope that some of these critical federal judgeships get filled in the next few months. Right? Heh.

Sorry, I couldn't resist some gloating. Seriously though, it's about time you Dems got with it and gave your leadership the boot. MacAuliff should be the first to go. I can't think of anyone who is more of a partisan shill (except for Carville). Daschle and Gephardt should go next. We conservatives need an opponent we can respect...

Carnahan trailing by less than 1% with 94% counted ...

"We conservatives need an opponent we can respect..."

Well, then the playing field just wouldn't be fair, Peter.

The party of Saxby Chambliss has a lot of fucking nerve using the word "respect."

With Chamliss over Cleland, I have officially lost all faith in the basic goodness of humanity.

was waiting for the trolls

On the MN site, Mondale is 4 back with half the vote in.

I see no way to specify geography.

In CA, the Los Angeles vote is just starting to come in, and it will obliterate Simon's lead. I must say, the race is closer than I expected.

Pelosi as House leader. She is my rep and is itching for the job. She is primed and will work her ass off. She is liberal and does not need to worry about re-election. She is a woman and will be perfect for exploiting the gender gap, especially with a war. And the repubs will have a harder time creaming ehr the way they do Daschel.

Who for the Senate. Mondale would be great. Schumer is a fighter and tough as nails, what we need, but i do not know enough about him. We need fighters. This is survival, now. Meekness won us a stunning defeat.

Gore is the only one with a realistic shot right now for the WH. If he can fight back, people would love it. We all know what really happened, the facts are there for a great and exciting comeback fight. And obviously, as tonight is teaching us, we will never win if we do not have a knock down drag out fight on the issues. The only problem is the media. They will want to destroy him. But he has nothing left to lose anymore, so maybe he can pull it off and fight like hell.

Kerry and Edwards just do not have the stature to take on the nasty house of shrub.

"Schumer is a fighter and tough as nails, what we need, but i do not know enough about him."

I've mentioned Schumer elsewhere also for this (he's my Senator). He'd be excellent, I think.

please keep posting MN results, the mn.gov site is getting hammered.

Nope, late numbers went for Wilson over Romero:
Wilson (REP)* 41134 53%
Romero (DEM) 37168 47%

% of precincts reporting: 98

WI governor looks like another pickup. Great, we have all the statehouses just in time for breadlines.

funny cnn has called colorado yet.

Kerry and Edwards just do not have the stature to take on the nasty house of shrub.

I agree, and I also think that Lieberman, Dodd and Gephart are also no hopers.

that was question btw

funny cnn has called colorado yet.??

Chambliss belongs to the Republican Party, not the other way around. Whatever he has done to deserve your scorn, it can't be so sleazy as Bill Clinton, or as weaselly as Daschle.

Trolling makes for fun for everyone. :) You know you like nibbling at the bait.

Schumer is okay, but he really needs to be more aggressive on corporate governance and stock options thatn he has any current promise of being.

Schumer is okay, but he really needs to be more aggressive on corporate governance and stock options thatn he has any current promise of being.

This is looking like a bloodbath. We've lost Georgia, Missouri, and likely to lose Minnesota. Maybe South Dakota as well.

This sucks. This really sucks.

Schumer is the guy who called Harvey Pitt "the Zeus of the field" (though he might have just been referring to his appetite)

Sorry about the double posting

i think Gore should run against Republicans and the media...

he is going to start doing interviews next week he needs to lexus nexus his interviewers and start turning the tables
ask them why they misquoted him and took his words out of context.

i think Gore can be free he has nothing to lose...

I can take Daschle, but Gephardt and McAuliffe have to go.

Ughh, I can't take this! When are we going to adopt instant runoff voting and proportional representation? I wonder what a tab of all house votes and senate votes for this and the last two elections, by party, would look like.

I bet it would be a Democratic majority.

Some of these losses are so painfully close.

We liberals don't need a leader the conservatives *respect*; we need a leader they'll *FEAR*. The jury's still out on who that'll be, and the media's not going to do us any favors -- I get the impression they'd prefer to appoint *themselves* the loyal opposition to the GOP.

And I wish Cleland had had the imagination to run an ad in response to Chambliss' tasteless and dishonest Cleland-Hussein-Bin Laden ad in which Cleland looks into the camera and announces dismissively, "I could kick Congressman Chambliss' ass with one hand tied behind my back." I can't believe that moron will be a US Senator...

SD margin is in the hundreds of votes

"We liberals don't need a leader the conservatives *respect*; we need a leader they'll *FEAR*."

Lest we forget, we had one. His name was Bill Clinton. He drove Republicans insane.

Hey MYDD, GaDem, Barnes is now behind Purdue by only 60,000 votes. with 91% of the precincts reporting. What precincts still need to be counted? Any large minority areas?

John Jimenez

Peter--glad to know you have now become a supporter welfare. He wrote that hideous farm bill that all the gopers were complaining about.

yes and where in clinton in this equation???

McAuliffe is his boy !!

Silly Ga6thDem, don't feed the trolls!

I fail to see your point, smartone.

John, Barne's still 4% behind though, with 9% to go.

Carnahan should get about 8000-9000 more in St. Louis City. Three counties haven't reported at all, and I have no idea if they are good or not. She needs more than 9000, for sure.

South Dakota, who knows what's out there.

MN, Coleman by 4.5 with 50% in; no idea where. 0.56% for the late Paul Wellstone.

Barnes would need to make up that 60K margin out of 200K votes remaining ... he would need 160K of the 200K. Not happening.

my point is...

Clinton did campaign for many of these losses
and most importantly McAuliffe is his hand picked DNC leader...

seems like Clinton 's stock might go down a bit also...

I like Dennis Kucinich, who stays in Ohio 10 by 74%. (He introduced a bill to reate a Dept. of Peace.)

http://www.house.gov/kucinich/

The only saving grace here is that there's bound to be a backlash -- Dems can campaign on "It's not our fault."

Joey Dee-sorry. Sometimes my fingers just get to typing---anyhow I dont know what state you live in but you are not stuck with shameless as your senator!

I don't know that conservatives would fear anyone except for an opponent who would threaten constitutional rights. No, I think respect is the right word, because there are precious few liberals who can stand up to the best conservatives in an honest debate. I'm not claiming that Bush is the best conservative leader or thinker. That should be obvious. Just ask the question: Why can't liberals compete in forums like talk radio where a prolonged, rational discussion of the issues is king? Why do liberals have to misrepresent their opponents (see any debate on Social Security in this election cycle) to gain public support?

We're losing California by 2 percent although it looks early... this is depressing

Looking at the outstanding precincts by CD, I'd say Georgia finals will be no better than current at all.

The fate of the senate could rest on a few hundred votes. Minnesota was I think the highest turn out in the nation. Good for Fritz. Anything on Hersheth?? Missouri will be one to watch. The margin of error could be 1-10 votes for all we know. Did Sigelemen survive? He seems to be doing better then Davis right now.

Here's a map of Minn. counties. I think Mondale will pull it out, given some of the numbers, but I do not know the state well enough.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2002/pages/states/MN/S/01/map.html

Great point, Joey Dee. Now if only we can regroup and figure out who else the GOP hates (Gore? Daschle? Hillary?); it's either that or repeal the 22nd amendment, and the only shot we'll have at that will be in 2007, when we'll have to rope-a-dope the GOP into thinking it's for Dubya, and it's really for Bill.

"talk radio where a prolonged, rational discussion of the issues is king?"

the sublime logic of that statement speaks for itself

By the way Sigelemen got 58% of the vote during his last run for governor. I think that's why he might survive this one!

thune is winnning now, its over.

Here's the listings by county for Minn.:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2002/pages/senate/index.html

I am concerned about the results coming from CA Govenorship it shouldnt be this close.

Opps! Sorry, wrong link:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2002/pages/states/MN/S/01/county.000.html

I'm fried, somebody tell me if there's any reason for me to stay awake. The Ds are net -1 in turnover senate seats and there are no more endangered GOP seats. Right?

Also if Carnahan loses as it looks like she will, the GOP has the senate effective immediately, right?

the one issue that bug me the WORSE was homeland security..

Bush was against it for months and months finally when he realized that he was going to get killed with it.. he changed his mind and then has since tried to torpedo it with the non union workers..

all i heard in this campaign is Democrats were against homeland security..
it was like alice in wonderland ...

"Great point, Joey Dee. Now if only we can regroup and figure out who else the GOP hates (Gore? Daschle? Hillary?); it's either that or repeal the 22nd amendment, and the only shot we'll have at that will be in 2007, when we'll have to rope-a-dope the GOP into thinking it's for Dubya, and it's really for Bill."

Please, Chris. I wasn't trying to start a catfight. We have enough trolls trying to poison these boards without us turning on each other. My point was, there are leaders out there, and we're not as weak as we feel right now.

You're concerned? At least there the DEms own the leg; in OR, we might have a GOP trifecta.

"respect", "talk radio", "honest debate", and "prolonged rational discussion of the issues" -- Peter, you didn't happen to write those "one of these things just doesn't belong" skits for _Sesame Street_ in a previous life, did you?

Am I reading this right, the governorships are at parity? If HI, AL, OR, or CA goes bad, the GOP actually controls the majority of states too?

CA is drifting our way. Cruz (Lt. Gov.) looks better. Both competitive house seats look Dem - Cardoza taking the old Condit seat by 3 points with 55% reporting. The emerging majority is slowly creeping out of the Pacific Ocean. Linda Sanchez looks good for the open 39th.

"Prolonged rational discussions", "talk radio", same sentence?

Grow yourself a brain Peter.

Why is it that Republitards have to misrepresent their own views, let alone their opponents', to get support (see any republitard discussion on anything in the last two years).

Davis up by 2%

Davis has pulled ahead, to stay. The closeness of the race is entirely an artifact of slow LA and SF reporting. I'd guess Davis by 6, less than the 10+ I'd promised my friends. I'd say the GOP polled about 5 points better than "expected" almost everywhere, maybe even more in New England. Even Hutchinson came in above most of the polls.

MyDD, remember to flip the WI statehouse.

That can't be right about the governorships. The Repubs took from the Dems: Maryland, SC, NH, VT, and Georgia. They took MN from the Independents. We took PA, Ill, MI, KS, OK, WY, WI, and NM from the Repubs and Maine from the Independents.

55% of the MN vote in on the government site, Mondale still -4.5 and not gaining.

One good thing: There is no longer any ambiguity! This was a crushing defeat for the politics of pussyfooting. The so called moderate pro business dem-lites like Lieberman are now relics of failure and defeat.

I'll check again, gonna start a new thread.

"Thune is winnning now, its over"
Yes but they haven't counted the aeras west of the river yet which is strickly Dem territory, from what the Msnbc guys are saying Johnson is doing pretty well so far. The native American reservations will be counted last. And they have what - 17,000 new registered voters? or is it 7,000. I forget.

John Jimenez

New thread is up.

You might want to shut off your TV's. There's going to be a recount in AL. Bob Riley is claiming that he won and Don Siegelman is claiming that he is going to win. Bob Riley said that he's going to fight and fight and fight and fight the results.

Folks, Gore has too much baggage to be credible in 2004. Plus conditions in the world have changed too much since Gore was last in office (i.e. the rise of terrorism). Besides that, Kerry and Dean were speaking out against Iraq way before Gore ever did, but the media refused to cover them.

One sleeper candidate may be Bob Graham, who not only opposed the Iraq resolution but also serves on the Intelligence committee, is a veteran, and is from Florida.

How about Graham/Kaptur ticket in 2004?...virtually guaranteeing both Florida and Ohio to the Democrats! Or maybe even Graham/Pelosi?

Me neither, Joey Dee (though Peter's inability to string together consecutive lucid and accurate phrases does provide ample temptation). For whatever reason, it seems like internecine squabbling is more popular on our side of the aisle right now, and the postmortem of an election is probably the most discouraging time to talk about leadership, prospects for future victories, etc. I'm not looking forward to hearing the pundits weigh in on this, either...

Let's not forget that Gore won the popular vote in 2000 and he'd pressed for the complete statewide recount he'd be in the White House today.

He's the best shot for the Democrats.

*If* Gore had pressed for the statewide recount.... Besides, he's still a link to the prosperity of the Clinton era.

Richard P.,

49% to 48% is hardly a decisive popular victory...not to mention how exit polling may have skewed the results in Florida. The point is, the Florida election does not prove any point you're trying to make, and Gore still wasn't able to pull off a significant popular victory over Bush.

A Bush/Gore rematch would be the worst thing for the country. Americans do not want a grudge match. Can't we just move on and get some new faces and new leadership as Democratic standard-bearers?

The Democrats need to nominate someone who can unite the Left with the Center. Despite the tendency of many of you to *blame* them for the disappointing election results tonight, Kerry, Daschle, Edwards, and Gephardt would still very much be able to beat Bush in '04. Howard Dean is not out of the race either, and Graham and Biden are also possibilities.

Chris: That was devastating, but you must have been reading someone else's posts.

Fifth column: Sheesh, with arguments like "republitards" against me, I don't know how I can win. Oh, wait that wasn't an argument (unless you are 10 years old)

This is the kind of crap I'm talking about. I may have been trolling, but I didn't just fling random insults. I even apologized for my gloating. Is a discussion without invective possible with you people?

The best formula for Democrats over the past 30 years have been southern governors but I don't see who in that group will be able to go toe-to-toe with a popular president who thinks he has a mandate now.

Of course, things can change, but I have to agree with the pundits on CNN who were saying that the field of possible opponents for Bush now shrinks.

Daschle, Gephardt and Kerry are hardly new faces...and they all voted with the administration on the war resolution. That bunch is *not* the answer or the future of the Democrats and will not energize the base or reach out to the center effectively.

The Democrats probably would prefer that the war not go too well and have Bush vulnerable on that as their no. 1 issue, since they really did almost nothing to capitalize on the economy as an issue this time, and I can hardly think of anyone who'll be in a better position to say "I'll told you so" than Al Gore.

How about Bob Graham? Possibly the right person but I don't know. Does the nation know him well enough? With Bush becoming more of a force, is someone who isn't well known the best possibility for the Democrats? I don't think so.

I'd just like to say how partisan and biased this web site is in its predictions. Even though there was a late surge for republicans, this site has been as paritisan and totally off on predictions as I've ever seen. MyDD take off the democratic blinders in future predictions.